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47282847 7 hours ago [-]
Small reminder from Germany: I’ve been using my mobile number since early 2000s, provide it as contact info in lots of places and sign up forms, and have received maybe 10 spam SMS overall, and less than 1 spam/callcenter call per year.
I reported an obvious fraud call to the authorities once per web form, and they followed up about two weeks later thanking me for my submission and that they banned the number block and company behind it.
Strict regulation and enforcement works.
ocd 1 days ago [-]
More than a few places won't even recognize VoIP numbers as legitimate primary numbers, and this will only make it worse. I'm not surprised an organization tied to Microsoft is going to ruin another thing I like.
viraptor 1 days ago [-]
VoIP numbers are not really a thing. I mean there are pools usually assigned from that other companies are aware of, but it's not enforced. You can buy a custom number and use it if you want. For example I had a residential landline number from my home town assigned and routed to a mobile in another country for better billing when my family wants to call.
ocd 1 days ago [-]
I'm well aware. I've been using VoIP for a long time, but as I said, some services refuse to recognize VoIP numbers as they can query and check. It doesn't matter if the number was ported and originated from a mobile service or landline telephony provider.
Netflix is an example of a company that takes a hardline stance not allowing a VoIP number on an account, even while banks don't seem to care since it's the customer's choice.
viraptor 1 days ago [-]
> It doesn't matter if the number was ported and originated from a mobile service or landline telephony provider.
It still depends on public databases with hopefully-accurate data. I'm registered on Netflix on a number which can make and receive VoIP calls. It's just not a usual VoIP-specific provider. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50401117
UqWBcuFx6NV4r 1 days ago [-]
The comparison with / deferral to banks is not really relevant. Apples and oranges.
LoganDark 1 days ago [-]
I'd be curious to hear your justification for why it's so much more important for Netflix to ensure there's a "real" phone number behind the account compared to banks.
(Note: I don't agree with any equivalency or even correlation between phone numbers and legal persons)
direwolf20 24 hours ago [-]
Netflix could have their access to video content cut off if they don't comply with all the ridiculous power trips of content "rights" owners. Banks only have to comply with actual laws.
LoganDark 24 hours ago [-]
Banks are required by law to perform KYC. They would otherwise face much greater consequences than Netflix ever would.
Phone numbers are irrelevant for that though, so the only reason banks would think they need it is a false correlation between phone numbers and identities.
Netflix also seems to think phone numbers have something to do with identities. But you'd expect banks to be more serious about verification.
simonra 5 hours ago [-]
Banks in the developed parts of the world only really need to know the national identifier of their customer to report their assets for tax purposes, and be capable of verifying passports/government id tied to the identifier when they show up physically to claim what's theirs. Asking about anything else is only needed because the Usians bullied everyone into wasting humanities limited resources on it because they're administratively stuck several centuries behind when it comes to governance.
cartoonworld 1 days ago [-]
Yeah but you can easily use an api for HLR lookup and see where it is ported to
viraptor 1 days ago [-]
It's not fully reliable. For example you can have local residential lines that in practice go over VoIP and the provider allows you to use the same account to call out. They'll be classified as just normal landlines. It will vary wildly from place to place, but I think soon the type field in HLR will mostly lose its meaning.
(Just checked my company number, running on a hosted PBX, and it's marked as landline with no extra porting info that would contradict it)
noman-land 1 days ago [-]
What's HLR? Can you explain?
bennettnate5 1 days ago [-]
The Home Location Register (HLR) is the telephone-provider-specific database that routes calls coming from other providers; while originally a 2G term (it's HSS in LTE and UDM in 5G), people still just call it a HLR lookup. The actual HLR lookup itself goes to a separate country-wide database that maps phone numbers to the cellular or SIP provider. So, when you place a call, your provider can use that database to then lookup the HLR database and reach out to it to further route your call to that person's specific location.
sjdh76 1 days ago [-]
I think you guys havent seen how large corps use/run call centers/BPOs. Indian (legal) call centers rake in billions of $$$ a year. This kind of feature is to try to get a leg into that market. 100% sure enterprise stacks asked for it.
jordemort 1 days ago [-]
Is this why I've gotten 7+ spam robocalls in the past 2 days?
dqv 1 days ago [-]
That's kind of cool. I hope more companies do this. If I understand it correctly, I can provide my own SIP server, so ChatGPT can join conferences or answer incoming calls.
Arubis 1 days ago [-]
This is how we get AI regulations.
soraminazuki 20 hours ago [-]
Nah, this is just how people will get screwed. Proper regulations will only be introduced if those in power care.
transitorykris 1 days ago [-]
It's time to just stop using the telephone, it's only for scams and mother's day
dofm 1 days ago [-]
My phone use dwindled to almost nothing after my father died. I unplugged my landline then because he was the only real person who dialled it.
I very rarely get calls on my mobile; only about one in twenty aren’t scams.
EA-3167 1 days ago [-]
Elections are how we get that, but imagine the nonsense we’re all going to have to endure between now and January.
UqWBcuFx6NV4r 1 days ago [-]
Oh, Jesus Christ.
opengrass 1 days ago [-]
Cancer. You won't talk to a human being anymore, and everyone will block numbers not in contacts.
seanp2k2 1 days ago [-]
The FCC and Verizon / ATT / T-Mobile allowed the phone system to be ruined in this country by continuing to route calls for spammers and scammers for decades. It's handfuls of people and organized crime causing the vast majority of the problems. Instead of actually investigating this stuff and shutting it down systemically and throwing these people in prison, they let it get so bad that we're just deciding as a society that we'd rather not have real-time voice communications because the few companies that run them haven't been good stewards of the technology.
pvab3 1 days ago [-]
isn't there some application for hardware attestation for calling? Like if I get an iMessage text I know its a real person with an iphone, but no similar system has been applied for phone calls. It can't be that hard for carriers to provide some kind of indication whether a number is an actual phone or not.
ranger_danger 1 days ago [-]
There are massive armies of cheap Chinese phone bot farms... I don't think getting spam from a physical phone is any indication there is a real person in the mix.
ranger_danger 14 hours ago [-]
> everyone will block numbers not in contacts.
Already been doing that for a solid 20+ years now, ever since PocketPC/Windows Mobile first introduced the feature. But OpenAI getting SIP support is not some great new existential threat... we've had similar APIs for years with services like Twilio.
gib444 23 hours ago [-]
> and everyone will block numbers not in contacts.
I've had this configured for a while now due to my number being leaked all over the place and getting 4-8 spam calls a day :/
kyleee 1 days ago [-]
Hopefully it’ll be possible to use this to dispatch faxes over SIP as well
iAMkenough 1 days ago [-]
Is that why I’m suddenly getting fax spam this year?
Every few weeks, it’s either a fake invoice or investment pitch.
Since I receive them as a PDF in an email, I wonder if prompt injection via fax has been done.
Arubis 1 days ago [-]
If you’re stateside, anti fax spam laws have more teeth than anti-email spam laws.
iAMkenough 1 days ago [-]
That’s honestly more frustrating, given call and SMS spam is more prevalent than fax or email spam for me. Those systems just have better (but not infallible) consumer-side protections.
Get with the times, Congress.
belzebub 1 days ago [-]
This might be the worst idea in history.
ranger_danger 14 hours ago [-]
You know we've had SIP via APIs for close to 20 years already, right?
joecool1029 1 days ago [-]
Anyone else eagerly awaiting a deluge of ChatGPT scam calls?
viraptor 1 days ago [-]
Call your representative and bother them about punishing the callers and telcos. It can be regulated. Just needs people to care.
dofm 1 days ago [-]
Better yet, prompt ChatGPT to do it.
seanp2k2 1 days ago [-]
This. Call their offices a hundred times per day to reinforce the point. Leave voicemails each time. Use different personalities and names and numbers on each. They might not get each literal message, but they're get the figurative message.
edoceo 1 days ago [-]
the number of spam calls I get on a well published number has gone way up since 2024. Like dozens per day. Twilio filters don't work, support doesn't "get it". I recently ported in an old-persons number and holy CRAP! Calls starting at 7am their time and lasting through dinner!
jordanb 1 days ago [-]
This honestly feels like the use case...
runnr_az 1 days ago [-]
what could possibly go wrong?
RicoElectrico 1 days ago [-]
Just tell it you're hard of hearing and need it to say "Albuquerque, New Mexico" after every word containing letter "a".
UqWBcuFx6NV4r 1 days ago [-]
Cringing at myself for referencing Rick and Morty, but it’s too apt.
I predict by 2030 humans are back to paper and personal messengers just so we can get some peace from slam.
I look forward to iMessage latest revolution from Apple. It takes a revolutionary to bring human connection back in the feel of your hands. Send incredibly beautiful textured linen paper, folded to perfect, tucked in a pocket of starched paper, sealed with the latest in molecular bond technology. Upgrade with iCut Pro, a shimmering blade in silver, gold, rose gold, and matte black that pairs incredibly with iMessage to open each embodiment of human connection with a swift, crisp cut.
dofm 1 days ago [-]
Remember they literally had, and cancelled, Steve Jobs's real-postcard-from your-photos passion project.
seanp2k2 1 days ago [-]
is THAT what MobileMe was supposed to do???? Holy...
solyin 1 days ago [-]
You'll only be able to talk to someone if your Apple watch reports that your heart rate is acceptable for the call, and they won't be able to answer the call if their Apple watch says they're too agitated.
bcrl 1 days ago [-]
Lowering the barriers to AI executed fraud, 1 SIP trunk at a time!
This screams for regulation. I don't see how OpenAI can claim to avoid liability using regulations originally meant for telecommunications carriers and now used to cover ISPs and Big Tech while also claiming their services are intelligent.
ranger_danger 14 hours ago [-]
How is this different from Twilio's Voice API that's been around since 2008?
seanp2k2 1 days ago [-]
Don't worry, they'll self-regulate. I'm sure they'll successfully ban anyone trying to use this for legit business purposes or for handling personal matters while allowing spammers who are even remotely clever to operate thousands of simultaneous accounts and place billions of calls without getting caught.
Then a month later they'll reinstate your account with zero explanation. Any attempt to contact customer service will be met with AI responses saying they got your message but are upholding your ban.
dofm 1 days ago [-]
They really went to a lot of trouble to do this when none of us answer the phone to unknown numbers anymore.
sscaryterry 1 days ago [-]
They 100% added this because they want to be regulated, sued, blamed.
Insimwytim 1 days ago [-]
They can combine it with the info they have on ChatGPT users and sell readymade call scripts for ..."marketing" purposes to the highest bidder.
It could be very valuable product!
koskon 1 days ago [-]
This feature was sponsored by Indian fraud call centres
seanp2k2 1 days ago [-]
Just like the telcos, if they're willing to pay, they're open for business.
seanp2k2 1 days ago [-]
And just like that, a thousand startup valuations went poof.
I reported an obvious fraud call to the authorities once per web form, and they followed up about two weeks later thanking me for my submission and that they banned the number block and company behind it.
Strict regulation and enforcement works.
Netflix is an example of a company that takes a hardline stance not allowing a VoIP number on an account, even while banks don't seem to care since it's the customer's choice.
It still depends on public databases with hopefully-accurate data. I'm registered on Netflix on a number which can make and receive VoIP calls. It's just not a usual VoIP-specific provider. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50401117
(Note: I don't agree with any equivalency or even correlation between phone numbers and legal persons)
Phone numbers are irrelevant for that though, so the only reason banks would think they need it is a false correlation between phone numbers and identities.
Netflix also seems to think phone numbers have something to do with identities. But you'd expect banks to be more serious about verification.
(Just checked my company number, running on a hosted PBX, and it's marked as landline with no extra porting info that would contradict it)
I very rarely get calls on my mobile; only about one in twenty aren’t scams.
Already been doing that for a solid 20+ years now, ever since PocketPC/Windows Mobile first introduced the feature. But OpenAI getting SIP support is not some great new existential threat... we've had similar APIs for years with services like Twilio.
I've had this configured for a while now due to my number being leaked all over the place and getting 4-8 spam calls a day :/
Every few weeks, it’s either a fake invoice or investment pitch.
Since I receive them as a PDF in an email, I wonder if prompt injection via fax has been done.
Get with the times, Congress.
https://youtu.be/qVpqaac4mZ0
I look forward to iMessage latest revolution from Apple. It takes a revolutionary to bring human connection back in the feel of your hands. Send incredibly beautiful textured linen paper, folded to perfect, tucked in a pocket of starched paper, sealed with the latest in molecular bond technology. Upgrade with iCut Pro, a shimmering blade in silver, gold, rose gold, and matte black that pairs incredibly with iMessage to open each embodiment of human connection with a swift, crisp cut.
This screams for regulation. I don't see how OpenAI can claim to avoid liability using regulations originally meant for telecommunications carriers and now used to cover ISPs and Big Tech while also claiming their services are intelligent.
Then a month later they'll reinstate your account with zero explanation. Any attempt to contact customer service will be met with AI responses saying they got your message but are upholding your ban.
It could be very valuable product!